March 5, 2025
Recently, I had a conversation with my wife Codie Sanchez on her show, The Big Deal Podcast.
During our wide-ranging discussion, we touched on several topics that have shaped my worldview, including my thoughts on the ethics of intervention.
Having served in the military and witnessed various challenging situations, I’ve developed some perspectives on moral responsibility that I’d like to share.
When Should We Intervene?
“What happens when you see violence or purported violence or threats, and then you’re disincentivized from intervening? You can’t lie to yourself and lie to other people. I don’t think. I think it’s pretty impossible.”
This question has been on my mind, especially considering what just happened with Daniel Penny being acquitted.
I think there was a generation of young men hanging on by a thread to what was going to happen on this case.
To hear he was a service member and to consider as a young man, what happens when you see violence or threats, and then you’re disincentivized from intervening? It’s insane.
Doing the Right Thing
Our friend in the security world, Spencer Corson, has talked about cases where there’s a domestic dispute going on, a man beating a woman senseless in public. Then somebody intervenes, it turns out it’s a husband-wife pair that are drug addicts.
This guy gets sued for assault, and she doesn’t press charges on her husband. And it just goes downhill from there.
To see Daniel Penny, where something like that happens when he intervenes, a man was still alive when police arrived, whatever happened at the scene.
But at the end of the day, a person protecting other people intervenes, and we put him through this incredibly difficult process.
I would love to see a movement for a Daniel Penny law where it’s like, give some protections, afford some protections to people who intervene.
I know that would probably get tricky from the legal side of the house because there’s so many nuances and variables, but from a base level at least, now I think young men are saying, “Okay, opt out.”
Well, yeah, opt out. I don’t know, because after this judgment, I think now it’s like, okay, I’m not completely lost.
When Codie asked what an awful society it would be if no one helped her in a dangerous situation.
I responded, yeah, exactly. And I think you see it from city to city. I mean, I don’t think it was anything that we would find in Austin, Texas.
Problem of Group Responsibility
There’s a phenomenon that happens in crowds that relates to intervention.
It’s like mob mentality but in reverse.
You can commit violence and hide amongst a crowd because if you’re all guilty, no one is guilty.
But the opposite also happens – when you’re in a group, you might assume somebody else will intervene when they see something wrong.
Self-Honesty and Moral Clarity
One of the key points I made early in our conversation touched on the importance of integrity and honesty with oneself: “You can’t lie to yourself and lie to other people. I don’t think. I think it’s pretty impossible.”
When Codie challenged this view, saying, “I don’t agree with that. I think we’re great self rationalizers. I don’t think that many people think they’re evil.
I think they’re right,” I had to acknowledge: “Yeah… people typically lie to themselves. And a lot of people do this.”
Nature of Service Professions
When discussing service-based professions like law enforcement, teaching, and military service, I emphasized the need for greater recognition:
“I hope we have a major switch in how we think about service-based jobs. I really hope that we significantly turn around how they’re compensated, how we think about them.”
Speaking about Codie’s mother, who was a special education teacher for 30 years, I expressed: “And what she had to deal with on a daily basis.
“Like, I have so much respect for her and the fact that she was able to come home and be a wife and be a mother and be as patient and as impactful as she was and still is for you and your family. Because I think that would drain all my energy.”
“People tell me how little teachers make. It’s like you’re paying this person, expecting them to be a contributing member of society, yet we treat them like they’re at minimum wage levels.”
Conclusion
The importance of moral clarity and personal responsibility remains a central theme in how I view both my military experience and everyday ethical decisions.
When we see wrong, we should act—but our society needs to better support those who do.
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